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Joe Spears, Joe Silver, John Spear; 3 Names, 1 Person and How He Tried to Scam Me

By Administrator

Everyone who’s ever worked online has come up against someone who is trying to scam them. So when it happened to me I decided to go public about it to warn anyone else who is being scammed by the same person, because not only did this person try and obtain one of my ebooks for free, he tried to get 4 of them.

This person bought 4 ebooks from me all in one day and then wanted 4 refunds. He first of all claimed that none of the download links worked. So I emailed the ebooks to him but he still kept insisting that the download links weren’t working. I tried to explain to him that there were no download links. I had emailed the ebooks to him and so he now had them.

But he still went on about download links not working and then he wanted his money back, for all 4 ebooks.

Is it a coincidence that one person can buy 4 ebooks and encounter 4 faulty download links? He is not my only customer and everyone else who purchases those ebooks has no trouble at all. So I did not believe for one minute that none of the download links were working for just one customer, especially as he didn’t need them because I’d emailed the ebooks directly to him.

Sometimes problems with download links do happen, and I respond by simply emailing the ebook directly to the customer to save time and frustration. Usually it's that's simple. But not this time.

So here’s what happened...

I first encountered this person early in January 2013 who goes by 3 different names and 3 different email addresses:

Joe Silver <silverjoe88888@yahoo.com>

Joe Spears <coolingjoe800@yahoo.com>

John Spear <johnclassic11@yahoo.com>

Now I usually don’t make a habit of revealing people’s names and email addresses but I feel it’s okay in this case because I don’t believe that any of these names are his real ones (people who use different names do so to hide their identity) and I’m revealing his email addresses to warn you of what he is up to so he can’t do the same to you too.

One thing I do know about Joe-Joe-John (as I’ve lovingly come to call him) is that he is from Singapore. I did a quick WhoIs search of his IP address, which, naturally, is the same for all 3 of his email addresses.

I first came to know of him when he purchased 3 of my ebooks, all in one day. He purchased:

The Complete Online Course and Living The Laptop Lifestyle from E-Junkie

Self Publish Worldwide from ClickBank.

Curiously, he purchased The Complete Online Course twice using 2 different names/emails, so he had made 3 purchases though E-junkie and one through ClickBank.

These purchases were all made on 3rd January.

On that next day, 4th Jan, he began 3 disputes against me through PayPal for his 3 purchases through E-Junkie.

I contacted PayPal the next day, 4th Jan, because, as I understood it, PayPal don’t get involved in disputes about digital products and Joe-Joe-John had stated in each dispute that the links didn’t work and he couldn’t download his ebook.

I told PayPal it was the first I’d heard that this customer was having problems.

Before opening a dispute with PayPal a customer is supposed to contact the vendor first and try and sort out the problem amicably. The person I spoke to at PayPal said the customer had opened a dispute about a physical product, despite his admission in the text of his complaint that it was an ebook.

PayPal closed the dispute.

I then received the following email (same day, 4th Jan):

From: Joe Silver

Subject: pls resend the complete online courses.the link is dead.

The email itself was blank. I figured he must be a man of few words.

I emailed him the PDF file of the ebook.

Then 2 days later on 6th Jan I received the following 3 emails:

From: Joe Spears

Subject: pls resend the link page.

hello,editor.pls resend the link page .your link page is faulty. I am unable to download your ebook.

thanks.

AND

From: Joe Silver

(No Subject)

hello,editor.pls resend the link page .your link page is faulty. I am unable to download your ebook.

thanks.

AND

From: John Spear

Subject: pls resend the link page.

hello,editor.pls resend the link page .your link page is faulty. I am unable to download your ebook.

thanks.

So now he wanted the links sending again for The Complete Online Course and Living the Laptop Lifestyle.

I sent the Complete Online Course PDF ebook files again.

At first I got confused and thought he’d bought a copy of E-Publish and be Damned because it was my new ebook at the time and I was heavily promoting it and making sales and I emailed it to him.

Then I realized my mistake and emailed the correct ebook, The Complete Online Course, to his email addresses.

I also resent the download link for Living the Laptop Lifestyle. I didn’t sent the ebook because it comes with 5 bonus products so I thought it would be easier for him to download them separately. Luckily, E-junkie allows me to re-send a download link to a customer with just one click. So that’s what I did.

But I could already see from my log files that he had downloaded the ebooks already and I’d already sent the other ebook (The Complete Online Course) to him. So by now I was wondering what he was up to.

Why was he contacting me and asking for links re-sending when it was clear that he’d already downloaded the files?

But the next day I found out.

He wanted the ebooks AND his money. He wanted all the ebooks for free.

It all became clear the following day, 7th Jan, whenI received these emails regarding The Complete Online Course:

From: Joe Spears

Subject: regarding the complete online course purchase

HELLO, there. I request for you to send the link page.I have check the files . I was unable to open the files after many tries.This is too troublesome for me.I did not want to know this course anymore.

I would like if u kindly refund my money back. Thanks.

AND

From: Joe Silver

(No Subject)

HELLO, there. I request for you to send the link page.I have check the files . I was unable to open the files after many tries.This is too troublesome for me.I did not want to know this course anymore.

I would like if u kindly refund my money back. Thanks.

I replied the same to both:

(Joe Spear, John Spear and Joe Silver) I have already emailed copies of the files to you so there is no way you can say you have not received the ebooks. Once you open the emails the files are automatically downloaded to your computer.

You then treat the attached file like any other file on your computer; double click to open it, drag and drop it in another folder on your computer or copy and paste it somewhere else on your computer.

BUT YOU DO HAVE THE EBOOK.

Just treat it like you would any other file or document on your computer and open, move and re-save it in the same way.

If you don't understand how to do that then you're telling me that you cannot open any documents, files or folders on your computer, and that I do not believe, otherwise you would not be able to use your computer at all as you wouldn't be able to open anything, not even your browser or your email application, in which case you could not send an email in the first place.

I have been patient with you (Joe, Joe and John) but now I've had enough. I have responded to all your emails and sent copies of the ebooks (which I know from the transaction logs that you already had downloaded). Now please stop wasting my time.

You have the ebooks. They are on your computer. I cannot be fairer than that.

On that same day he also emailed me again, only this time it was about Living the Laptop Lifestyle ebook that I’d re-sent him the link to the previous day:

From: Joe Spears

Subject: regarding the living laptop lifestyle purchase

HELLO, there. I request for you to send the link page.I have check the files . I was unable to open the files after many tries.This is too troublesome for me.I did not want to know this course anymore.

I would like if u kindly refund my money back. Thanks.

So I emailed back this reply (with the ebook files and bonuses attached in a zipped file):

I re-sent you the link to the ebook yesterday. After reading your statement "I was unable to open the files after many tries" I checked the log file for that particular link and saw that you have made no attempt to download the file at all from the re-sent link but did in fact download the ebook after only one attempt using the first link that was sent to you.

So I have now attached a copy of Living the Laptop Lifestyle, and all it's bonuses for your convenience.

As to the other ebooks you purchased using 3 different names and 3 different email addresses (Joe Spear, John Spear and Joe Silver) I have already emailed copies of the files to you so there is no way you can say you have not received the ebooks.

Once you open the emails the files are automatically downloaded to your computer. You then treat the attached file like any other file on your computer; double click to open it, drag and drop it in another folder on your computer or copy and paste it somewhere else on your computer.

BUT YOU DO HAVE THE EBOOK.

Just treat it like you would any other file or document on your computer and open, move and re-save it in the same way. If you don't understand how to do that then you're telling me that you cannot open any documents, files or folders on your computer, and that I do not believe, otherwise you would not be able to use your computer at all as you wouldn't be able to open anything, not even your browser or your email application, in which case you could not send an email in the first place.

I have been patient with you (Joe, Joe and John) but now I've had enough. I have responded to all your emails and sent copies of the ebooks (which I know from the transaction logs that you already had downloaded). Now please stop wasting my time.

You have the ebooks. They are on your computer. I cannot be fairer than that.


The next day, 8th Jan, I received an email from ClickBank regarding Joe-Joe-John’s purchase of my other ebook, Self Publish Worldwide:

CBSYSTEM (CBCSR) : CLOSED : 01/08/2013 11:30 AM PST

Transaction Refunded

----------

CBCSR (Jutta G) : CREATED: 01/07/2013 11:29 AM PST

Dear Customer,

We are initiating this refund ticket in response to the dispute that you entered directly through PayPal.

Please be sure to close the dispute as soon as the refund posts back to your account.

Best regards,

ClickBank.com

**********************************

PayPal Dispute - Customer Comment:

From Buyer - spear joe

1/3/2013 11:47 PST

hello. the file page is faulty. I was unable to download the ebook.

I would like for refund .thanks.

So again, Joe-Joe-John had made a false claim to PayPal by initiating a dispute for a physical product when he had actually purchased a digital product.

ClickBank refunded his money for this purchase immediately. They are very fast to give refunds, even without the vendor’s knowledge. This is only one of the reasons that I no longer sell products through ClickBank and now use E-Junkie instead.

When I first contacted E-Junkie about this problem they emailed a long reply back which included the following:

Look at the names of the buyers for these three transactions, and the IP address they were purchased from. They are Joe Silver, Joe Spear and John Spear. And they all have the exact same IP address of 180.129.4.126 -- this is also the exact same IP address that was last used to access each of the download links for these transactions. This is pretty obviously one person with three PayPal accounts under false names who is requesting multiple refunds after getting your product.

They saw clear though what was happening. ClickBank on the other hand responded to my request for them not to refund the money with this:

PayPal disputes are treated seriously just as chargebacks are. They can tarnish your reputation as a vendor and ours.

And they refused to stop the refund.

The same day, 8th Jan, I received the following longer-than-usual email from Joe-Joe-John:

From: Joe Spears

Subject: Re: regarding the living lifestyle purchase.

Hello there. let me explain to you first. i found your website and curious to find out more about your courses.it is true i use 3 different email name because. when i first purchase the COMPLETE ONLINE COURSE .THE link page is dead.i was frust because i could not access to it.i was a bit impatient .so i decided to buy it again.but this using different email coz i did not want the thing happen again.To my dissappointment the 2nd attempt the link page is dead again.

so i was afraid to try it again.

Then i saw LIVING LIFESTYSLE PURCHASE. I was really excited to know the method. it different title i am a bit confidence that the link page works.

i decided to use different email to prevent link page problem.it get me thru but i could not open the ebook.i did not know why.maybe my computer firewall has problems or something else.

so i decided to email you instead.

The reason i use different email is to prevent mix up so if problem arrises it can be solve easily.

since you have brought up that i using three different with same name .it easier for me to type into one email and explain to you the problems is without using three differrent email which is troublesome for me too.

Please i did not intent to make you angry.I also did not expect such things happen.

As such i kindly ask you for a refund and did not intent to make you angry.

i want to solve this amicably with you.i know getting a refund is hard.but pls be fair to me.

okay,let me ask you if all the ebook contains the same infos,( that is about making small income on the internet )

would it be fair if u charged with with one payment only?

since it the same book. must i pay 3 times for the same info?

( which happen because of cheriton website dead link )

i hope we can solve this amicably as i hope to be your long term ebook customer.


He wants to be my long term ebook customer? Yeesh!

And it's funny how, once confronted, these people always try and act completely innocent. It seems he doesn't know how to use download links, but he certainly knows how to fill in and send a PayPal dispute because he did it 4 times (but failed to mention it in his email).

I also noticed the way he sidestepped the fact that I'd emailed the ebooks to him.

He also admits that he uses different email addresses for what he says are legitmate reasons. But fails to mention that he also uses false names. (In fact, he actually said he uses the same name.)

He also said, rather insultingly, that "...if all the ebook contains the same infos,...would it be fair if u charged with with one payment only? since it the same book. must i pay 3 times for the same info?" If he says that he knows what the ebooks contain, then that is an admission to having read them. Which means, he has them.

That's the problem with being a liar. You need to have a good memory and not admit to reading the 3 ebooks that you claim you don't have because the download links don't work.

By now I was tired of him wasting my time.

I replied with this email:

I sell my ebooks through e-junkie. The ebooks are downloaded from the e-junkie website, not the cheriton house publishing website. The transaction records on the e-junkie website confirm that you did in fact download the ebooks.

You do not need to use download links to obtain the ebooks you purchased because I emailed the ebook files to you directly so you already have the ebooks on your computer. So you can't use faulty links as an excuse. The links aren't faulty anyway, and as you already have the ebooks, because I emailed them to you, you have no need for links. SO STOP USING FAULTY LINKS AS AN EXCUSE!

I see that not only are you trying to get these three ebooks for free but you have also conned Click Bank into giving you a refund for my other ebook. It seems that you want all my ebooks for free. It is impossible for you to buy 4 ebooks and have 4 faulty download links. I sell dozens of ebooks every day and not one other person has any problem downloading the ebooks. Only you, it seems.

And just in case you were thinking of purchasing another copy of my ebook from ClickBank under another of your fake names and email addresses and then asking for a refund, I have withdrawn my ebook from sale rather than let you do it to me again. I have also emailed ClicBank about this whole issue, which as a seller, I can do because they always want to know about fraudulent activity. There is a link on my vendor account that I can click to escalate matters and bring fraudulent matters to their attention quickly.

And in your email you have lied over and over again. Here is just one example. You state that you were having problems with the ebook download "so i decided to email you instead." Liar. You did not email me. Your first course of action was to initiate 3 disputes with PayPal. You obviously thought you could circumnavigate me and get PayPal to give you a refund behind my back. But PayPal don't get involved with disputes over digital products so you had to initiate a dispute over a physical product instead. You lied to them. I know because I rang PayPal myself and talked at length with the PayPal staff about you and what you were attempting to do.

Here's another lie:  "i want to solve this amicably with you." No you don't. There is nothing to solve. You purchased my ebooks. You tried to innate a dispute over it. When that didn't work you emailed me and asked for the links resending. It's now obvious that the reason you wanted the links resending instead of receiving the ebooks is so that you could use "faulty links" as an excuse for a refund. Instead of the link I emailed the ebooks directly to you. You now have the ebooks. You still keep harping on about broken links even though you already have the ebooks. So then you went to ClickBank to get a  refund on another ebook of mine that you purchased. They gave you the refund.

So what is your problem? You bought ebooks. You've got ebooks. And on one of them you even got your money back so you got that one for free. Congratulations. But that is the last thing you get for free from me.

If you still feel that I have defrauded you in some way you are free to take legal advice/action. But as far as I am concerned the matter is closed. I won't be communicating with you any more. There is no need. 

You purchased 4 ebooks and then want 4 refunds. Coincidence? I don't think so. And 4 times you went behind my back to try and get the refunds. Very sneaky. Very underhand.

I will be discussing this problem online to warn others about what you are doing, so be careful of any other emails you send me as they may be made public. 

have a nice day.

I then thought everything had quieted down. I consoled myself with the fact that although Joe-Joe-John had made 4 purchases and received one sneaky refund, he still only purchased 3 of my ebooks because he bought one twice (which is the exact price of the one that was refunded).

Then, nearly a month later, out of the blue, on 3rd February, I received the following 2 emails (sent within a few minutes of each other:

From: Joe Spears

Subject: Re: regarding the living lifestyle purschase.

ALL THE BOOKS HAVE BEEN PAID .

SO WHY THE NEGATIVE REMARKS?

BTW why call a customer FRAUD

when the fraud is yourself .

And then 7 minutes later:

From : Joe Spears

Subject: regarding the living laptop lifestyle purchase

ALL THE BOOKS HAVE BEEN PAID .

SO WHY THE NEGATIVE REMARKS?

BTW why call a customer FRAUD ?

when the fraud is yourself .

WHY call a customer liar ?

when yourself a liar

HAVE A NICE DAY .

DONT REPLY BACK

Hopefully that is the last I hear from him. I didn’t reply back. Why would I?

But if you sell ebooks online or anything else that is instantly downloadable, be careful of Joe-Joe-John and don’t let him get your stuff for free.

Remember his names and email addresses:

Joe Spears <coolingjoe800@yahoo.com>

Joe Silver <silverjoe88888@yahoo.com>

John Spear <johnclassic11@yahoo.com>

 

Update. 15th February 2013
I have now started to receive spam email from Joe-Joe-John. Below are what I received today:

 

spam email from Joe-joe-John

 

joe-joe-john-spam

Both links in the emails lead to a website about how a "work-at-home-mom" earns money online (WTF?). I didn't click on them, I previewed them.

Note the 9 hours in time difference in when the 2 emails were sent.

My mind sees him sitting at home, seething, and trying to think of ways to get payback.

I think this guy is off his rocker.

Image

I reported both emails as spam to Yahoo.

 

Update 21st March 2013

Today I received the following email from Joe-Joe-John.

I had forgotten about him until today.

I CANNOT BELIEVE he is still sitting at home, seething and expecting me to give him money AND let him keep my ebooks for free.

This guy is obviously crazy. You have been warned...

Crazy email from Joe-Joe-John

Update 4th December 2013

Today I received another spam email from Joe-Joe-John. It seems he hasn't quite grown up.

All this originally happened months ago. Why is he still so p*ssed about it? He is the one who tried to defraud me by downloading 4 of my ebooks and then asking for a refund for every single one of them (and not getting it).

Yet he still seems to be sulking about it. I guess I was the one person who didn't let him have his own way.

I must be renting space in his head without even knowing it because he can't remove me from his mind.

Oh well.... I guess I'll just have to keep reading his dumb emails and uploading screenshots of them here so you can see what type of immature person he is and be wary of doing any business with him. But wait, it's not business. He doesn't want to purchase anything from you. He wants everything for free.

Spam email from silverjoe8888@yahoo.com

 

---------------------------------------------------

I have been selling my ebooks through ClickBank for years, but because of their new fee structure (which is so ridiculous I don't want any part of it) and the fact that they were giving customer refunds without my knowledge, I moved all my ebooks over to E-Junkie.

E-junkie are far easier to work with and cheaper to use. Wtih ClickBank it costs $50 to open a vendor account (or $19 for subsequent accounts) and they take a fee for each sale plus $1 per sale. They also charge fees for paying you your money. And they always withhold money (in case of refunds, they say) so they can charge fees again.

With E-Junkie it's free to open an account and I pay $5/month for up to 10 ebooks and it doesn't cost me any more, no matter how many sales I make.

AND they don't get involved in customer refund requests which was so lucky for me with Joe-Joe-John.

Had my ebooks still been on ClickBank (which they were, until January, but Joe-Joe-John struck before I'd managed to remove the last one,) they would have given him all his money back as soon as he opened all his PayPal disputes.

It seems that if you want your money back from ClickBank, all you have to do is open up a PayPal dispute and they'll give it back no questions asked.

If you want to sell ebooks online, I definitely recommend E-Junkie.

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